This is the kind of muddying and confusion of debate that afis wants to achieve. In the course of this debate,afis and his fellow ethnic jingoists, along with the misguided Tony Agbali, have challenged me on a number of issues.They demanded I respond to those new issues they have raised.Now afis is insisting he wants to address only the original issue that began the debate.Clearly he is trying to dodge something.He does not want to respond to the challenge I issued about his shallow knowledge of Esu, a central figure in Orisa cosmology.
The discussion began with my argument on the need to expand or even modify ese ifa. I am more than capable of responding fully to all the challenges raised in the course of this discussion and will do so one by one.I will respond in sequence to all the questions raised,up till the last point on ese ifa. Meanwhile afis and his fellow uninformed people, resistant to learning,will not be allowed to escape from the responsibility to prove the points they have tried to make against me.
afis ridiculed my description of an invocation of Esu,claiming that it shows my ignorance of Yoruba language and spirituality because no one invokes Esu since Esu is purely destructive.
I argue,to the contrary that Esu is essentially understood as a creative force that manifests in various ways,of which what might look like destructiveness is one of them.That,in fact,Esu is messenger between humans and orisa,as well as a central figure in Ifa divination.
Based on afis last response,I establish the following
1.You,afis, have FAILED to respond to my central question on Esu-if Esu is understood as purely destructive as you claim,why does he play a central role in Ifa,as demonstrated,for example by his representation in opon ifa,Ifa divination trays,where his face is carved face upward ,facing the babalawo as he divines?
You responded:
"By the way, you are only partially correct about "opon Ifa"...you are now ascribing behavior and particularity of certain parts to all others.
I say unequivocally that what symbol or design adorning the "opon Ifa" depends on the parts of Yorubaland that the Ifa priest comes from.
The old Yoruba Kingdoms habored several dialects that have their own versions of how to appease their deities, though there were similarities. However, even with the similarities their ways of worship and the importance of the deities in their lives varied.
Esu may not be as important in Ede town, while Ile-Ife may find Esu as next to Orumila. Yeye Osun may be the most revered in Osogbo, and Esu laalu may be relegated to the background.
I've seen different symbols on "opon Ifa", in different towns and villages. In fact, the Olu-awo-s in the Awori sub-Yoruba-group don't have "opon Ifa" with Esu's face on them. Their symbols are quiet different"
Has anything you have written invalidated my position?
No.
You have in fact done two things:
You have supported and reinforced my position.
Any deviation from my position expressed by you is at best a refinement of my position.
The problem here is that you might realise your error but in your ethnic bigotry,in your determination to assert the superiority of your understanding of native Yoruba identity,you are not willing to admit it.
With your loud "cyber lips" you earlier stated that a person making an invocation to Esu amounts to placing a ""CURSE" on himself, telling Esu laalu to pursue him until his life is snuffed out of him".
With the same loud and self contradictory cyber lips you turn round and tell us the opposite,forgetting that I am keeping watch of every word and will pounce on your dishonest effort to escape the trap you have created for yourself.
You now write:
"...Ile-Ife may find Esu as next to Orumila."
Wow.
Are you referring to Orunmila,the orisa of wisdom,Eleri Ipin,the Witness to Creation,the one whom the Ifa oracle is based on,whom people go to for guidance all over Yorubaland and the diaspora?
You are now telling us that this venerable and wise figure is placed in very close association with a figure you describe as wholly destructive?
Do you want to tell us that placing "Esu next to Orunmila" as you state does not mean close association in activity and importance?
Or do you mean their physical symbols being placed next to each other on a shelf? Or on a shrine?
Of course not.
All along you have been trying to describe various levels of importance of Esu in parts of Yorubaland.
You are telling us therefore,that in Ille-Ife,the place where the Yoruba creation myth says the world began ,Esu and Orunmila might be seen as working hand in hand.
You thereby assert that both the figure you describe as wholly destructive and the orisa of wisdom are seen as working intimately together in parts of Yorubaland.
Most interesting.
afis Odidere,please tell us how what you have written above can be reconciled with your earlier comment that a person invoking Esu is tantamount to placing a "CURSE" on himself, telling Esu laalu to pursue him until his life is snuffed out of him".
From your "fecund yet uncluttered mind" as described by Laiye Oduntan after you dug yourself deeper into the trap Esu led you into on my behalf,please explain this contradiction.
You must not run away from this .You must prove that you are not " fecund" in contradiction.That you are not cluttered in disorganized understanding of that Yoruba civilization you like to crow about.
Do you now agree you have reinforced my position that Esu is not understood wholly in destructive terms but as demonstrating different aspects to his character?
Even if we give credence to your argument about various levels of importance of Esu in Yorubaland,it does not invalidate my argument that Esu is not seen only in destructive terms in the Orisa tradition.It reinforces and refines my argument.
I wish I could remember an ese ifa that will sum up this situation into which you have allowed yourself to be trapped in.No problem.I can invent one.Here it is:
The water in the sky and the water on the earth are the same,but different.
The Babalawo (Ifa priest) of the Heart
consulted Ifa on behalf of Okere(the squirrel).
The Odu(divinatory pattern) that emerged was Ose'Tura
(which may be understood as the Odu of Esu,embodiment of the X factor,the unanticipated,among other qualities)
"Okere",said the babalawo
"You shall be going on a journey soon.
On this journey,
When you want to fetch a nut for food,be careful which nuts you choose.
Choose only nuts that you can carry home easily.
Dont take any nut too heavy for you.
If you see that any particular nut is too heavy, drop it,so you can get home.
Give to Ifa a sacrifice of a kola nut, representing the wisdom to know when to change your actions,sprinkled with palm oil to smoothen the workings of your mind so you are not held down by stubborn pride".
Okere thanked the babalawo and went home.
When he told his wife about what the babalawo told him
His wife pooh poohed the babalawo's warning.
"Are you not General Okere,of the fecund and uncluttered mind?
Who has ever known you to bite off more than you chew?
Are you not Jaguna,whose name is spoken of in whispers among the rugged hill climbers in Abeokuta,the Place Below the Rock?"
So Okere did not sacrifice and he allowed the breeze of time to wash away from his mind the warnings of the babalawo.
One day,Okere went on a journey, as the babalawo had predicted.
On his way back,Okere decided to carry some nuts home to his wife.
He found one,found,two,found three.
He carried them all.
He found the fourth one but he had problems carrying all four beceause the fourth one was too big.
He struggled to accomodate the fourth nut and kept struggling till night fell.
The next morning found him still struggling with the nut.
Night met him there in the same predicament.
He could not bring himself to abandon the fourth nut beceause he found it so attractive.
His pride refused to let him release the nut.
Okere might still be back there struggling with the fourth nut.
Secondly,even though I have no evidence to the contrary,I would like you to prove this assertion by you:
"In fact, the Olu-awo-s in the Awori sub-Yoruba-group don't have "opon Ifa" with Esu's face on them."
This could exist,but I doubt if they are the norm.I would like to see pictures,anyway.
I challenge you to provide evidence to that effect,in the form of photographs.Meanwhile,I post here images of opon ifa,in different designs,from two different parts of Yorubaland,all with the face of Esu on them.
Opon Ifa from Ijebu
Opon Ifa from Oyo
Images from The Yoruba Artist ed.Roland Abiodun et al and Yoruba:Nine Centuries of African Art and Thought ed.Henry John Drewal et al
Thirdly,this point you make is elementary:
"I say unequivocally that what symbol or design adorning the "opon Ifa" depends on the parts of Yorubaland that the Ifa priest comes from".
You again,for once when you get it right,state a basic fact as if you are saying something wonderful.
There is a broad range of designs for opon ifa.Within these possiblities,there are variable and invariable elements of design.The invariable elements,which often do not change,are the empty centre,where the divinatory instruments are cast and the face of Esu.
The other elements are variable.
I also see this statement as false in relation to my argument that Esu always features as a creative agent working with Orunmila,the orisa of wisdom:
"you are now ascribing behavior and particularity of certain parts to all others".
Ifa,within and beyond Nigeria,has reached a level of standardisation that implies that certain features achieve uniformity everywhere.The relationship between Esu and Orunmila is one of those.
Can you prove that the fact that Esu is messenger between humans and Orisa is not universal throughout Yorubaland and the diapora as of the present moment?If you want to invoke an rgument from the historical devlopemnt of Ifa,sugesting that this might not alwys have been so I am interested in examining your evidence but even then it does not invalidate my point beceause I have always been referring to the present moment in history.I dont expect you to be able to even prove that it was not always so ,any way.I dont expect you can becaeuse of the difficulty of rcaing the historical development and because of your limired understanding of the value of scholarship,
mot to talk of its skills.
as evidence in your scorn of scholarship
I expect that as you scheme on how to dig yourself out of this self created trap,you might begin to appreciate that you need to look sharp when I speak of brother Esu.
You are entering into a realm that is new to you.
Rather than spend time beating my chest and engaging in rhetoric like you,even though you are really saying nothing new,I leave you with this expression,particularly relevant since you and your ethnic bigots like to throw their Yoruba knowledge about.
Bi owe,bi owe, lan lulu agidigbo.
Like a proverb,like a proverb,is the war drum beaten.
I am ready to debate till the end of the world ALL the issues raised .I will not ALLOW ANY of the issues raised to escape analysis.If for any reason you choose not to explain your contradiction on EsuI will declare to everyone that you are trying to escape declaring your mistake or/and ignorance.Then I will go on to examine critically the other points in this debate.By which time,the world will see you and your supporters for what you are.
Thanks
Toyin
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